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Author Topic: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac taken over  (Read 914 times)
mation
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« on: September 07, 2008, 01:25:52 PM »

http://consumerist.com/5046333/nobody-panic-government-seizes-freddie-mac-fannie-mae

Basically, the debt incurred by these corporations are now absorbed into the public debt.

Oh, and the small shareholder just got screwed hard.

So now I'm imagining how this will play into the cyberpunk dystopian future.  By privatizing profits and collectivizing debt, the government has just become weaker as an economic power.  By protecting large investors and wiping out small investors, the risk/reward calculation now favors a much smaller spectrum of money holders.

Someone tell me in soothing tones how I'm just being paranoid and everything will work out fine.
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Loopster
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 05:37:15 PM »

Dont worry so much. These things work themselves out. Fannie Mae was pretty much the dept of EDU anyhow right? Its not real money anyhow so dont worry so much.
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~"If the American people were allowed to know the details of the bank bailout, there would be rioting in the streets..."

-Henry "Hank" Paulson, November '08
mation
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2008, 05:42:48 PM »

Thanks enloopious!

Were you using soothing tones?
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Enki
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2008, 09:02:09 PM »

Dont worry so much. These things work themselves out. Fannie Mae was pretty much the dept of EDU anyhow right? Its not real money anyhow so dont worry so much.
True; not real money, but then again, none of it is anymore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

I am really wondering what is going to happen to US government bond prices after this. The US just took on a TON of debt, so in practice, this is a lot like stock dilution.

Fannie and Freddy both had really lengthened their tethers to the US gov't over the years, so this is still a big change.

Good old Mike Shedlock (fantastic financial writer) has a really good piece on it here: http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/09/paulson-rolls-dice-at-taxpayer-expense.html

At best, those $1000 checks y'all got down there; they just picked your pocket for about the same amount. By the way; the better than expected GNP numbers a few weeks back? Those were from SPENDING those checks. Just a method of propping up the numbers on the economy for another quarter before the election.

The best/worst part?
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Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac share the critical mission of providing stability and liquidity to the housing market. Between them, the Enterprises have $5.4 trillion of guaranteed mortgage-backed securities (MBS) and debt outstanding, which is equal to the publicly held debt of the United States
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 10:28:40 PM by Enki » Logged
Loopster
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 04:16:00 PM »

Ouch, it just hurts to read that.

I guess the best rule of thumb is that you only have what you are currently holding.
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~"If the American people were allowed to know the details of the bank bailout, there would be rioting in the streets..."

-Henry "Hank" Paulson, November '08
Enki
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 02:31:28 PM »

I just found something really awful out.

The current default/foreclosure rate for US mortgages is at 9%.

FNM/FRE have 5 and a half trillion in mortgages, ergo: they are exposed to at least 500bln in losses.

Which Paulson just hot potatoed over to the taxpayers.
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bigbrother
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 03:31:52 PM »

Call me an idiot but isn't the government owning a bank illegal?
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Enki
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2008, 08:26:28 PM »

Call me an idiot but isn't the government owning a bank illegal?
Depends on which government, but no. Fannie and Freddie started out as GSEs anyhow. It is surprising how much socialism exists in the USA, if you just know where to look.

I do think that the FDIC approach would be a better one in this case, but they really don't have the reserves to handle entities as big as F+F. By the FDIC approach, I mean insuring deposits, and turning control over to another private firm. The problem is that F+F aren't really normal banks, and are just too damn big.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 10:12:23 PM by Enki » Logged
Q_Continuum
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2008, 02:37:33 PM »

Now, to counter (oh-so-marginally) there are GOOD GSE's out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Marksmanship_Program

Is one.  Want to buy an M1 Garand, or M1 Carbine, from WWII or later?  Sure can!
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Enki
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2008, 10:13:57 PM »

Now, to counter (oh-so-marginally) there are GOOD GSE's out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Marksmanship_Program

Is one.  Want to buy an M1 Garand, or M1 Carbine, from WWII or later?  Sure can!
Hey that is cool. I never meant to imply that GSEs are intrinsically bad, just that you shouldn't make a bank which handles 50% of the countries mortgages which is government sponsored, since it leads to "moral hazard". Realistically, any idiot, perhaps even a politician, should have predicted that they would take un-necessary risks due to a sense of invulnerability, and bottomless funding.
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Loopster
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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2008, 12:46:18 PM »

There is also the domino effect to consider. When all these people lose their houses, when the banks close and they lose their jobs, and when $3billion is 'absorbed' by the fed, it has to come from somewhere. Those $3 billion come from the magic tax dollar which means we gotta foot the bill. I think we all know that these things are designed to happen. It looks like uncle Sam is bailing them out but uncle Sam uses our wallets to pay his bills. Oh the joys of Socialism!

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It is surprising how much socialism exists in the USA, if you just know where to look.

Yeah, its called the 'New Deal.' I think most of the people on these boards realize that social programs like welfare and unemployment take money from our own wallets and skim off the top, and then give it back to us in a very watered down way.
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~"If the American people were allowed to know the details of the bank bailout, there would be rioting in the streets..."

-Henry "Hank" Paulson, November '08
destined
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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2008, 11:45:13 PM »

Shortest name for it is the "21st century New Deal.."

Some friends and I are watching with amazement at the bail out package coming out for the Banks and financial house of ill preparedness. Have a feeling this won't be the last bail out of them and it will be spun as some new government interventionism.
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