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Author Topic: U.S. Conscientious Objectors may be deported from Canada  (Read 836 times)
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« on: June 10, 2008, 09:36:27 PM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7444116.stm

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Head-to-head: Refuge for deserters?

Should US deserters from Iraq be given refuge in Canada, a country that welcomed tens of thousands of Vietnam draft-dodgers and deserters?

It's a burning question in Canada as the authorities prepare to deport 25-year-old Corey Glass to face trial in the US.

Here, Corey argues he should be allowed to stay, while below Jonathan Kay from Canada's conservative National Post newspaper says deserters should be sent home.

COREY GLASS, CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR/DESERTER

In 2002, I joined the Indiana National Guard. When I joined, I was told I would only be in combat if there were troops occupying the United States.

   
Corey Glass
I should have been in New Orleans after Katrina, not in Iraq
Corey Glass

I signed up to defend people and do humanitarian work filling sandbags if there was a hurricane. I had no conception I would be deployed to fight on foreign shores.

But in 2005, I was deployed with my unit to Camp Anaconda near Balad, Iraq. My job in Iraq was in military intelligence.

Through this job I had access to a lot of information about what was happening on the ground in Iraq. I realised innocent people were being killed unjustly and I tried to quit the military while in Iraq. My commander told me I was stressed out and needed R&R, because I was doing a job I was not trained to do.

I went home on leave and said I was not coming back. I was told desertion is punishable by death. I was Absent Without Leave (AWOL) in America for eight months.

I searched the internet and found out about US war resisters in Canada. I arrived in Toronto two weeks later.

   
TIMES THEY HAVE A CHANGED
Anti-Vietnam protest in New York
During the Vietnam War, Pierre Trudeau declared Canada ''a refuge from militarism''
Tens of thousands of American draft-dodgers and deserters took refuge in Canada
Canada's immigration laws are much stricter now: refugees must prove that they would face persecution - not just prosecution - if sent back home
On 3 June, Canada's parliament passed a non-binding motion in favour of allowing deserters to stay
I should have been in New Orleans after Katrina, not in Iraq. I believe the Iraq War is illegal and morally wrong. I believe I have a duty to refuse to take part in a war not sanctioned by the United Nations, started on the basis of lies.

I have been in Toronto since August 2006. In my time here, I have been self-sufficient and I have made many friends. I have built a life here.

Last week I was in Ottawa, when the House of Commons passed a motion saying that the Canadian government should make it possible for conscientious objectors to get permanent residence in Canada. The motion also said that all deportation proceedings against us should be stopped.

But I may be deported anyway. On 21 May I was told that my last chance to stay in Canada had failed, and I must leave by 12 June (since extended to 10 July). I know that if I return to the US I will face imprisonment and possibly a criminal record.

I don't think it is fair that I should be returned to the United States to face unjust punishment for doing what I felt morally obligated to do. I am hoping that Canada, which stayed out of the Iraq War for reasons similar to my own, will reverse the deportation order and let me stay, as parliament has urged.

There are several dozen other war resisters like me in Canada now. They all deserve to stay here and get on with their lives.

I hope the new American President will end the Iraq War and bring the troops home. But until that happens, I believe it is every soldier's right to refuse to take part in that war, if that is what his or her conscience says they must do.

JONATHAN KAY, CANADA'S NATIONAL POST

Should Corey Glass have enlisted in the US National Guard back in 2002? Probably not. From what I saw and heard of his 21 May press conference in Toronto, my first impression was that this pale, lanky 25-year-old should be playing synth in a Gothic emo band - not kicking down doors in Iraq.

But for whatever reason, Glass did sign up for military service. There's no draft in the United States - as there was in the Vietnam era: No one forced him to put on a uniform. Why should Canadians help this deserter go back on his freely given word?

America's fair-weather soldiers shouldn't be permitted to make a mockery of a Canadian refugee system that was originally designed to protect migrants fleeing assassination and torture.

During his 21 May appearance, Glass said he was "morally obligated" to desert the US military rather than return to fight an "unjust war" in Iraq.

At the same press conference, anti-war activist Jane Orion Smith argued that Glass is legally entitled to asylum in Canada because the applicable UN standard covers conscientious objectors involved in military actions that are "condemned by the international community".

Even if this label could fairly be applied to the 2003 liberation of Iraq (a premise I would dispute), it definitely did not apply to the Iraq conflict in 2005, which is when Glass deserted.

By that time, the UN Security Council had already passed Resolutions 1483 (recognising the United States and Britain as "occupying powers" under international law) and 1546 (endorsing the creation of an Iraqi Interim Government).

   
Does Canada really want to cast itself as the protector of fair-weather American soldiers fleeing their duty?
Glass's mission was not to invade Iraq, his mission was to help protect the emergence of a free, peaceful, sovereign Iraqi state.

With the recent deployment of the Iraqi army to Basra, Mosul and the Sadr City neighbourhood of Baghdad, that goal is now close to being realised - no thanks to Glass, nor to the dozens of other "conscientious objectors" now residing in Canada.

Moreover, from a purely political standpoint, giving asylum to the likes of Glass would send a terrible message. It would undermine America's war effort in Iraq - even as Canadian and American soldiers fight side by side on another front in the war on terror, Afghanistan.

Given this shared enterprise, does Canada really want to cast itself as the protector of fair-weather American soldiers fleeing their duty?

Six years ago, Corey Glass picked the wrong career. Three years ago, he picked an illegal way to abandon it. It's time for this ex-soldier to go home and pay the price for what he's done.

Jonathan Kay is managing editor for comment at Canada's National Post newspaper.

Some of your comments on the story…

He was a part of the National Guard. The last line to go to war, so the fact that he was sent to Iraq says a lot about the situation within our military and this "war", who will we send next, the merchant marines?
Tresor Gopaul, Montclair NJ, USA

Jonathan Kay really needs to look up what the term "National Guard" means. Glass was the US equivalent of a reservist. So they shipped a reservist overseas when the country isn't even formally at war (and when the Nation, which he signed up to Guard, is not under threat), and Kay thinks this is something he signed up for? Geez.
Sergiy Grynko, Toronto, Canada

Send him home. He needs to learn to stand up and fulfil his commitment instead of being a coward. It may not be pretty in Iraq, and he may not agree with what is being done, but he signed up for it regardless. I'm sure there were plenty in Vietnam that didn't agree with the policies, but still did what was asked of them.
Mike, NC USA

I sympathise with this guy, but guilty or innocent is not the question here: The point is that that's up to America to decide. He should make his case and be judged there. Canada has no responsibility either way.
Eric, Swindon

I am a Canadian who supports Corey Glass in his struggle to stay in Canada. Not only that, I support any US military person who has decided to come to Canada on the grounds that the war in Iraq is wrong. Thousands of Viet Nam-era draft dodgers and deserters came to Canada and have since become outstanding Canadians. They were pardoned by Jimmy Carter. Why shouldn't Iraq objectors be given the same treatment, instead of having to lay down their lives for George Bush?
Paul Brooke, Vancouver, Canada

I joined the Army National Guard in 1992. We all knew and it was made perfectly clear many times, before and after we joined, that we were in the United States Military and were required to defend the nation at home and abroad. We were never once told, nor was it inferred, that all we would do is "fill sandbags" for humanitarian reasons. Corey Glass joined the "ARMY National Guard" not the Peace Corps, Salvation Army, or any other humanitarian organization. The difference is that the Military pays more money. That is why Corey Glass joined. You train with guns, grenades, claymores; you train to fight a war. Not once in basic training was Corey Glass trained, nor was it ever mentioned in any class, or any Army field manual how to fill sandbags to stop a flood. Corey Glass learned to fill sandbags for a bunker to defend a military forward operating base from enemy attack. If it is for moral reasons then do what other conscientious objectors with standards have done: serve your time in a military prison for going back on the oath you gave to your country and fellow military personnel. Chris
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 12:14:16 PM »

I see this as a sure sign that Canada is falling in line with the US agenda. Pretty soon there will be no distinct difference between Canada, US, Mexico, and "North America". The question is not whether Canada should "help this deserter go back on his freely given word" or not but rather, should they support George Bush by following his orders and policies. Is this journalist saying that the storm troopers should have kept killing Jews because they had freely given their word to Hitler? The journalistic comments after are poor on logic and pretty much discriminatory.
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 02:50:06 PM »

I see this as a sure sign that Canada is falling in line with the US agenda. Pretty soon there will be no distinct difference between Canada, US, Mexico, and "North America". The question is not whether Canada should "help this deserter go back on his freely given word" or not but rather, should they support George Bush by following his orders and policies. Is this journalist saying that the storm troopers should have kept killing Jews because they had freely given their word to Hitler? The journalistic comments after are poor on logic and pretty much discriminatory.

yup. we're falling in line. but seems we're only taking the bad and not the good. Where is my second ammendment?

in all seriousness its because we have mostly american media here, of course we're going to start acting like them to a certain extent
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 04:24:08 PM »

Well, I have a bit of a Heinlein attitude to this, that if you don't want to serve in the Armed Forces, you shouldn't have to; especially not in an illegal one such as the (ongoing) Second Gulf War. However (This is gonna make me unpopular Tongue) despite that, the lad did sign a contract which stated he could go to war. He might have thought he would only do Humanitarian Aid and the sort when he signed it, but he knew in the back of his mind that there was a chance he could be called up to fight. And, really, you do have to honour contracts you sign, otherwise you're putting your integrity into question (Unless you are forced into signing them, or it's about something stupid, such as debt to a bank for instance. Now where's my soap making kit...).

So, do I think that he should have to go back to the US and be charged as a deserter? No, not really but I think he should really have consider the next contract he signs rather carefully and be aware of the fact that if you join any branch of the Armed Services, reserves or not, there is a chance you will be called up to fight, regardless of it you think the war is just or not.
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 04:48:42 PM »

Yes, if he wanted to take the moral high ground he should try to make a case that he was a victim of fraud.  But he did sign the contract regardless.

On the other hand, I don't know how many people actually read military contracts anyway, from my limited third hand knowledge they seem to be hundreds of pages in legalese.

The point is, don't sign a contract you don't understand. You can always ask questions. You can negotiate.

If they don't want to negotiate, especially in regards to anything you think contradicts your rights, don't do business with them.

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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2008, 11:31:46 AM »

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I signed up to defend people and do humanitarian work filling sandbags if there was a hurricane. I had no conception I would be deployed to fight on foreign shores.

I have to call "bullshit" on that statement. I haven't heard one person yet not acknowledge the possibility of going overseas if deployed. If he wanted out that bad and remain intact with an honorable discharge, he should have at least tried for the "fat boy" program and get discharged for being overweight.

There are other solutions, and now the trouble he's in over it...*tsk,tsk*...although I'll commend him for continuing to stick to his guns about his opinion on the war.
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2008, 11:38:05 AM »

Yeah, I don't think people realize that they are signing over ownership of themselves when they join the military. There is also the idea of stop loss and I am not sure if that is in the original contract or how they get into that but it sounds fishy and I would look into it if I were in the army.

That being said, contract law does not over-ride inalienable rights. If the penalty for deserting is death, it doesn't really matter what the contract says, its not a legally binding document because courts can't enforce something that removes rights that aren't removable. Right? That's like signing a contract that says you aren't a mammal anymore... just because you sign it doesn't make it so.
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2008, 06:27:03 PM »

I don't see why someone couldn't contract anything they wanted.

Examples: indentured servitude, masochists, Dr. Kevorkian.. I'm sure you could think of others..
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 02:55:51 PM »

Well of course you can contract to do anything you want. Its just an agreement between two people to do a thing and so long as they are in agreement, there is no problem. You can not contract (in the US) to kill someone because you are violating their property(body.) Contract killers are not legal no matter if both parties agree or not. That being said, we all have free will and laws don't make much difference, now do they? The worst thing about soldiers deserting is that they are breaking their honor, but in their minds, there may be other factors that are much more important. Obviously people don't understand honor like they used to or else they would probably choose an honorable death instead. But who understands honor in America...
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 03:14:52 PM »

A pertinent quote:

"Do not confuse 'duty' with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe to yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anything from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect." - Robert A. Heinlein
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 03:42:45 PM »

Good quote. Its true, the only duty you have is to yourself. I would feel bad about letting down my brother soldiers. I wouldn't want to fight next to a guy who didn't want to be there, that much is for sure, he might get me killed. Heres another quote that I thought was kinda funny:

The agreement to join the military is just a contract and like the Constitution "it's just a god dammed piece of paper!" -George W. Bush

 Grin
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 03:53:35 PM »

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I would feel bad about letting down my brother soldiers.

I'm not sure the term 'soldier' would be applicable in my case, but I suspect I would feel the same letting down a fellow 'minuteman'.

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I wouldn't want to fight next to a guy who didn't want to be there, that much is for sure, he might get me killed.

Agreed.

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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 05:28:51 PM »

Yeah, I think 'warrior' is a much more appropriate title... but then again, so is monk.
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