I've been there.  I almost killed myself a few years back when I was going to school.  There were a few different reasons for it wanting to do it, but pretty much the only thing that kept me from doing it was my roommates, who I was close friends with.  They didn't know what I was going through, so they didn't help me directly, but not wanting one of them to be the one to find my body was a huge deterrent.
I know that hallow feeling you're talking about.  I used to hurt myself just to try to feel something.  And I hated myself.  Sometimes I still do.
Counseling really helped me.  I was also on meds for a time (yeah, I know they're not popular here, but they're invented by very smart people to fix certain things and some of them do it quite well).  But counseling is the more important thing.  Find out what's behind your problem.  Introspection can only take you so far, sometimes you need someone else to help you sort through everything.
It gets better.  It's never perfect, but even with all of its shit life is worth living.  You probably can't see that right now, and there are no magic words I can speak today that will make you see it, but trust me.
I don't know what I can do to help you, but I'm willing to try what I can.

As others have stated...I have been there myself..I have held to knife over my artery and the only thing that stopped me was my best friends...the 2 people I care about most in the entire word. In the past I have done things to myself that I probably shouldnt have, but it just makes that constant nagging in the back of your head go away for a little while.

The best thing I can say is to 1, distract yourself in whatever way you see fit, and 2....go to or at least surround yourself with people that you care about, and who care about you. They will do wonders, and you might actually be surprised at how supportive they can be...I know I was and still am to this day

First thing that you should do is continue to talk to people who will give you an outside, non-bias opinion about what you think you are seeing at the moment. Not only does it give you a safe place to vent your feelings, but also the people here (or where ever you might choose) will reflect back the objective reality of what is going on. You might hold the opinion of yourself as an awful person, but that remains to truly be understood. Keep communication open with people, it's obvious that you are wanting help just by talking about it with people you hope you can trust.

You say that the catalyst was probably your grandmother's passing. Why? You also mention that you are an awful person. Why? As others have mentioned about being in a similar situation with depression, the one thing that has helped me for 17 years (I'm going on 36 mind you) is digging deep to understand the root cause. Questioning everything about why I felt the way I did. I personally think this is the one thing that has kept me going without medication or counseling. It didn't hurt to have someone to vent to in times of extreme "downs" or a shoulder to cry on.

I think it's good to see that you are trying to figure it out. It would appear that you need some help in trying to think things through in order to truly understand what is happening and why you are feeling the way you do. The "monster" so to say is the word "but," I think that word hindered my progress in my own self healing process. Try not to second guess yourself with the word "but," even though it's extremely hard not too.

Fantasizing  about your own death is just another sign of what you already know and I suppose for some people it is somewhat alarming. Considering the situation, I think it's normal under the circumstances.  Just as a fever is normal when someone is not feeling well with the flu.

Ultimately, I think you should continue to talk with people and seek counseling as another resource. Group therapy might also be helpful for you. Blood work would also be recommended to make sure that some, such as hormones aren't out of wack that might be causing you undo stress. Also, look at your diet to make sure you aren't ingesting too many sugars or other processed foods.

Don't let the monster win, fight back WOG style and hack your mind to understand what is going on. You have your personal army here waiting to help you. We've got your back 100%. Email me if you want too...I can chat your ear off...or you can chat mine. It's all good...

I don't know if these comments will help or not because they are just an analysis of the reasons for the feelings of despair but I think everyone goes through it to different extents. I used to as a teen and early in my 20s. There are chemical or hormonal changes that go on in peoples bodies around those times that cause these thoughts. Its pretty standard for high school and early twenties but nobody really talks about it because everyone else will think their crazy when in fact they're all the same.

Over crowding causes people to feel depressed a lot of times and it is not just limited to people. Primates have shown the same violent changes as people in over crowded situations. Get out of the location you are in.

Loss of control is another big one. When people feel they have no control over their lives or that the situation is totally hopeless, they despair but the thing is, they are usually not seeing that there are lots of other choices.

There is also the feelings of 'everything has been done' and that there is no purpose to life and its not hard to see why people would feel this way when you look at the pointlessness of the average persons life. They go from day to day, job to job, and have meaningless problems that don't really matter one way or the other. But this is an illusion too, YOU determine your own level of participation! Turn off the TV! Talk to some people. Stop eating fast food. Visit nature and stay for a while. Nothing gives you the desire to live more than being put in a survival situation. Test yourself. Learn something new. Balance out your chemicals.

What ever it stems from, you need to figure out the reasons why. Find the "trap" that puts you in this state of mind and figure out how to avoid or remove it. Usually the smarter people can see the problems with the system while the dumb people... well, lets just say ignorance is bliss.

Any updates random.wog?

You've been getting them.  This is good.


Losing a loved one is frequently a trigger for clinical depression, of which you seem to be exhibiting signs.


Doing things "because it's appropriate" but having no feeling behind it is a symptom.  A wise (and rather humorous) man said, "Depression is anger without enthusiasm."  -- Funny, but true.


That's some serious self-loathing you've got going there.  Why?  Do you think you might have survivor's guilt?  Why else would you suddenly start hating yourself?

Look, we all have a lot of things we think about that aren't healthy that we don't talk about.  Those of us who DO talk about them either get "counseled" or locked up, depending upon the severity, so I don't blame you at all for your desire for anonymity in discussing this.

But just the fact that you went to the trouble to protect your anonymity indicates that you have a modicum of self-preservation left.  BUILD ON THIS.  You must protect yourself.  And right now, you need to protect yourself FROM YOU.

The trouble with being your own worst enemy is that you know all the best ways to hurt you, and I don't mean physically.  I mean where it really hurts, EMOTIONALLY, where the damage to the psyche can be long lasting and very, very painful.

As a healthcare professional, of course I must urge you to get help.  HOWEVER I also realize the exposure you face in getting that help, which is why I stop at urging you, and move on to what I think (and it is ONLY my opinion as a human being experienced in dealing with these feelings in myself and others, and NOT as a medical professional -- this distinction and DISCLAIMER must be made, just like yours) may be most beneficial to you.

The mention of an animal is a good one;  Many animals will love you even when you don't, and when you look into the adoring eyes of a kitten who trusts you enough to fall asleep in your arms while purring, it's easy to feel like you can't be that bad...at least the kitten loves you.

The downside is that if you get some wretched, hateful animal it could make matters worse...especially if it's a stray or previously owned/abused, or it's your first animal and don't know how to properly discipline it -- little accidents can be taken WAY too personally by someone in emotional crisis.  Not recommending against it outright, but something you should be cautious of before you assume the responsibility for a life not your own.


This is what is known as specific suicidal ideation.  In the grand scheme of things, this indicates that the only thing preventing you from committing suicide is your will to live.

At this point you MUST focus on your will to live.

Let me tell you something, even BAD people have a will to live.  Some of the most evil, vicious pieces of shit in this world have a sense of sociopathic self-preservation: "Fuck you, if you're not me, then I don't give a shit about you."  -- selfish, yes.  Evil, could be.  But LADEN with self-preservation.

What I'm saying is...SO WHAT if you're evil?  So WHAT if you're a bad person?  BIG FUCKING DEAL.  Doesn't mean you deserve to DIE.  It just means you need to watch your decision-making...and only accept responsibilty for shit you've actually DONE.

Survivor's guilt is hard to reconcile because many times we feel like we're living through no virtue (and by default, no fault either) of our own.  Soldiers get this all the time.  Three or four buddies in a foxhole.  The sniper hits the guy next to you.  WHY didn't he hit you?  Why did Scotty get to go home and Henry get shipped in a body bag?

You can drive yourself NUTS wondering about that.  Don't wonder.  Accept the fact that you are alive, and that there is a PURPOSE to your life.  If you don't think there is, that's just because YOU HAVEN'T FOUND IT YET.

A little guilt, a little self-loathing can be a good thing, sometimes healthy, especially if you're an asshole -- it keeps you humble (at least, it does me).

But tell you what...if you're so bad...it means you've got PLENTY OF ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT.

Strive to be like SK said in "Wear Body Armor" -- "Try to be a Good Person, who sometimes does bad things."

We all do bad shit we regret.  I'm not going to trot out my personal laundry list of issues, both because I don't feel like airing them in an open forum and because the focus is on YOU, my friend.  Not me.

You have come here at some effort to present yourself to us for an opinion.

Here's mine:

1) Good or Bad makes no fucking difference.  You deserve to live.  Treat yourself like it.  Die now, and you die a Bad Person.  Live, and you can improve yourself.  Nobody is perfect.  Forgiving YOURSELF is sometimes the hardest thing to do, but YOU MUST DO IT, because before you can accept the imperfections in others, you must accept them and BE COMFORTABLE WITH THEM in yourself.

2) If you're going to hate yourself, have a good fucking reason.  Otherwise, knock it off and go do something good for yourself.  Many times a little happiness in treating yourself as someone special every once in a while can stave off the "the world would be better off without me" blues.  This could be as simple as treating yourself to a new toy (with "toy" bearing the non-literal translation of anything you like that's a possession -- for me, it'd probably be a gun, because those are my toys...or a new piece of medical equipment...or a new computer game...), or a new friend, or just something that makes you happy.  That could be as easy as walking in the park on a sunny day, looking at all the hot ass walking by -- never thinking "oh, that person would never fuck me" but instead allowing yourself the luxury of fantasy...write your own romance novel in your head.  Or WHATEVER ELSE WOULD MAKE YOU HAPPY.  Don't limit yourself.  Allow yourself to dream.  Even if it could never come true -- goals can be of the "ideals" kind,  the kind never intended to be achieved, only constantly strived for, making you a better person in the STRIVING, not the achievement.

3) Wow, I hate to say it, because I have a VERY low opinion of the psychiatric community based upon my experiences in the 70's and 80's on "both sides of the couch", but age may play a factor in your depression -- teen and young adult suicide is high partially because of hormone dumps.; Chemical imbalances, and the like.  I'm not a doctor and I don't even PRETEND to know how they balance, because what I DO know is barely scratching the surface and I can't speak knowledgeably about it -- I barely understand that which was explained to ME, and I'm no dummy.  But I've witnessed FIRSTHAND people diagnosed with issues correctable by medication, WITHOUT turning them into zombies.  And I've talked to doctors I TRUST AS NOT BEING ELITIST, SELF-INVOLVED BULLSHIT ARTISTS who have taken time and effort to explain many of the factors involved in a diagnosis requiring medication.  So it IS a viable option, to be considered at the very least, explored perhaps, and not entirely discarded.  But explored and considered CAUTIOUSLY.


That's the easy part.  What to do:  Live and be happy about it.  If what you're doing doesn't make you happy...STOP DOING IT.  It may be your job, it may be your LIFE that sucks...but you know what?  As trapped as you FEEL, you CAN just walk away without dying...you can GO DO SOMETHING ELSE.  Take up a hobby.  Stare.  Paint.  Browse the internet for something that just catches your fancy and TRY IT...and you know what, if you fail...so what?

Forgive yourself.  That's what you should do.  And live.  You've got contributions to make that will never be made if you decide to check out now, and I, selfishly, want you around to do that contributing, dammit, so someone else doesn't HAVE to.

As far as what will happen in the near future:  You will either live, or you will die.  I'm preferring the first option.

And I'd like to point out that while jumping in front of a train seems a clean death, it isn't.  It's MESSY.  And painful.  And if you fuck it up, you get up to an hour of shrieking agony the likes of which you've never experienced unless you've given birth without any kind of pain control, or been Evel Knievel...so don't choose that way.

I'm not saying choose another way...I'm saying, you better think that Final Jump through REAL careful, buddy.  You DON'T get do-overs on that one.

Everything else, as long as you're alive, you have the potential to feel better.

Dead, you don't.  That's it.  Dying when you're down...sucks.

Me, I wanna get killed at the top of my game, doing something spectacular or hilarious, something that allows me to be remembered.

As you get older, your attitudes change...this one's mine right now at this point in my life.

And it's a wonderful time to be alive;  There's so much you can do to insulate yourself from the shit around you that people DIDN'T have as few as 30 years ago.

So enjoy.  Eat some ice cream.  Go get some relief with a member of the opposite sex (use protection)...but for Server's sake, do SOMETHING other than wallow in your misery.  That'll get you nowhere.

Now, get busy.  There's a life to be lived, both good and bad.

"Everything to excess!  Moderation is for monks." -- Lazarus Long (Robert A. Heinlein)




S

I realize that.  I was talking about depression in general, not a suicidal tendency.  Bad example.  Me, because I AM into firearms, I wouldn't use a gun to off myself -- I know lots of cleaner ways that hurt less and leave less mess behind for those who find me.

But I won't discuss those here, and I did not mean to give the impression that you should go out and purchase guns...I meant you should go find something you like and treat yourself.


Ah.

I hate to tell you this, my friend, but guess what...you're not the only one this has happened to.  The human psyche is a strange and wondrous thing that does severely fucked up things for odd reasons.

One is that we avoid dying people, mostly because it reminds us of our own mortality, even though those people need us.  So we exercise our option to NOT see them.

And then when they're gone, we regret not spending every single precious minute we could have with them.

That, buddy, is just fucking LIFE.  I've got at least THREE people, my own grandmother included, whom in retrospect I wish I had spent more time with.

It's going to hurt for a long time.  Here's how you get over it:

1) Remember the good times you had with that person.  I know it sounds meaningless and trite right now in the pit of mind-burning guilt you're coping with, but hear me out -- eventually the happiness will be remembered as the pain subsides.

2) You must forgive yourself.  Even if it means going into the bathroom, looking at yourself in the mirror, and apologizing, and then telling yourself that you forgive you.  It's okay to cry while doing this.  I am serious...it sounds stupid but it made me feel better when I did it.

More than once.

3) LEARN from this experience so that the next time you feel averse to visiting someone who's dying, you can REMEMBER this pain so that it won't happen again.

I was a slow learner...took me three times.  And all three times, I'd had things I wanted to give them before they were gone, and they died too soon for me to give them these special items I knew they'd like, especially from me.

I keep those items now, in my "permanent memories" portion of my safe, way in the back.  They are my own quiet burden to carry, and while I have forgiven myself, I will never forget.

And I believe it is why when it mattered the most, when my father passed, I was lucky enough to have been the last of his children he'd seen, and I had time to say my goodbyes, knowing that he wasn't going to be around and that I wouldn't have time to see him again.

It was still a shock when I got the call, less than 24 hours after he visited me, but it was a relief, because I'd gotten to give him the model of the Stearman he'd flown in his youth;  That was HIS special thing I'd been wanting to give him, and finally, I'd been lucky and gotten it right.

But only part of that was luck;  Part of that was me, remembering how much it hurt the other times when I realized too late, and it was that pain that motivated me not to make that mistake with Dad.

Losing loved ones is always hard.  Especially if you don't have strong religious beliefs (Yes, even Mudhut religions have their purpose) that would allow you to believe that your loved ones are looking down on you from Heaven and can hear everything you say, so that you can still talk to them and they can still appreciate your words.

But however you choose to cope with it, cope with it you must;  You are not alone;  Many have come before you with exactly the same problems.  Some of them killed themselves, but most of them did not.  They found their reserves of strength of character and realized that screwing up is a part of life, and that pain is one of the most profound teachers.

Everything else seems hollow in the wake of the loss -- I know that.  You need to mourn;  No wonder you feel terrible.  Compounding your sorrow is your guilt.  Man, that's just a bad juju cocktail all the way around.

Here's a concept for you to chew on:  Your grandmother probably had the same feelings early in her life regarding one or more of her own relatives.  Do you really think, her having experienced this herself, that she'd want you to suffer the same way you are now over her?

Hell, if and when I have grandchildren, I'd forgive them in a heartbeat for this -- because I've been there, and I wouldn't want them feeling this bad EVER, let alone over me;  I know I couldn't protect them all the time, but there's no way on Earth I would expect one of my descendants to bear this burden without forgiveness.  And if I'm dead, forgiveness is easy -- it's not like it costs me anything and it benefits THEM.  I would love them and if it's no skin off my nose to make them happy, then my forgiveness is all theirs.

Really, all you need to know is that your grandmother loved you and wanted you to be happy, and that means with her age and wisdom, she could forgive you this probably more easily than you can.

So if you can't give yourself your own forgiveness yet, take hers;  Because it's likely she's been where you are, and knows it sucked.  Honor her memory by accepting her forgiveness, based upon her wisdom, greater than your own.

My own ghosts are rearing their ugly heads about now, making the screen all blurry for me, so I'm going to finish up here and go.

I hope you feel better.  You're not always going to feel great, but you're not always going to be this miserable, either.

Don't kill yourself;  There are too many more good moments that you don't want to miss out on.  Too many more goodbyes you'd like to be around to do right.  And finally, I want you around for my own selfish reasons, because even though I don't know which Wog you are, you ARE Wog, and that makes you a friend of mine.

And I've got uses for all of my friends, even if it's just someone to talk to as words on a screen at four in the morning (sometimes the friends who just sit there and do nothing but type back have the most significant impact on our lives);  I'd miss you if you were gone.

S