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Author Topic: Cold weather kit  (Read 1042 times)
benabus
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« on: October 28, 2008, 11:57:24 PM »

Hey guys,

I know you guys know a lot about military/survival kit, so I figure this would be a good place to ask about this.

I'm originally from Louisiana.  I've lived there pretty much my whole life, and it doesn't ever get colder than about 32F.  I just moved up to Indiana, where they actually have winter.  I'm not sure how cold it gets here, but I'm already noticing that my M-65 coat/liner may not quite cut it towards December and January.  Compared to Canada and further up north, I know it's not super cold, but because I've grown up in the south, I am completely unprepared for winter.

So, my question is this:  What's some good kit / clothing for cold weather?  Any other winter survival tips?

Thanks much,

~Ben
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Valekhai
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2008, 12:27:32 AM »

Hey, don't knock Midwest winters.  They can be ass-kickers.
It's past my bedtime and my brain is shutting off, so I can't give you a lot of good winter survival info.  There are better sources than me available for that, anyway.  But I will impart some of the common knowledge stuff that any good local will know.
I also use an M65 and a liner for most of the year.  It's usually not that bad, but sometimes it's not quite enough.  Remember to dress in layers, minimum of 3 (tshirt, long sleeved shirt, coat), but at the same time you don't want to overdo it and start sweating.  Avoid cotton if you think you may be in the cold for an extended period and may get wet (that includes sweat).  If the M65 doesn't cut it, look for just about anything with Goretex in it.  The stuff is amazing.  Get a pair of gloves with it, too.
When I was a kid my parents would always made me wear two pairs of socks when I played in the snow.  Turns out that's a horrible idea.  If you have a good pair of boots, one pair of good socks will be fine.  Anything more and you'll constrict blood flow, which makes your toes colder faster.
If you're going to be shoveling snow and have never done it before, don't push yourself too hard.  For some reason it's ridiculously easy to overexert yourself while shoveling snow.  If you start to feel hot, stop and go inside and sit down for awhile.  It seems that at least once a winter some poor bastard has a heart attack while shoveling out his driveway.
Driving in snow is a pain in the ass.  Go slow, break early, and try not to slam on the breaks.  If you start to fishtail or spin, turn the wheel into the direction of the spin (eg, if your back end is heading to your left, turn the wheel left).  Never underestimate the power of a new set of tires and a good set of windshield wiper blades.  Don't let your gas tank go below half full and keep some emergency kit in your trunk, especially if you're going to be out in the country at any point where it's easier to get stranded and probably harder to get found.

Indiana's a cool place.  If you're going to live in the Midwest, Indiana is probably the best state.  Friendly gun laws and doesn't appear to be half as fucked politically as Illinois.
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2008, 12:28:12 AM »

You can't go wrong with layers.

[loose and in layers]

Inner most layer should be a t-shirt or long sleeved shirt.
If it is realllllly cold out you can throw on thermal underwear under the t-shirt.

that M-65 coat/liner works great as an inner jacket.
Personally I use fleece or even down products for that.

That inner jacket will do you no lick of good without an outer shell. The outer shell MUST be wind proof. It should be water proof too, but sometimes you can't have everything.   For a while I was in a pinch, and for my external shell, I was wearing a $4 rain jacket from walmart over top of a down/fleece inner jacket. 

Stuff a set of gloves and a knit hat into the jacket, and take them everywhere with you. Sunglasses are great at keeping the cold breeze off your eyeballs. Sunglasses are also a necessity when there is snow of something else blowing in your face. Some sunglasses do not work so well in the cold wind. Aviators or that type will not work out so well in the wind.  You will have better luck with sunglasses that leave very little gap between them and your face. 

Just check out what the skiers are wearing, and that should get you on the right track.

....um what else. 

Good boots, good socks.  If it is damn cold out, wear a set of thermals under your jeans.  It's awesome how warm that will keep you.

Enjoy the great white north (well kinda sorta).  Rent Strange Brew and keep on trucking!  Actually, go back and watch season 1 of partolling... it is all about cold weather gear.
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paladin
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 06:33:23 AM »

When I was in the Marines we had the M-65 coat and liner.  One trick was to wear the liner under your blouse tucked in your trousers so it was not open at the bottom to stop cold air from comming in through the bottom.  We also had a wool sweater (woolie-pullie) to wear so we would have T-shirt, wool sweater, blouse, liner, outer jacket.  It was a warm combination for most winter applications.

Thanks
Paladin
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Yugosaki
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 07:58:21 AM »

Like everyone else said, loose and in layers. the trick is to trap as much air between yourself and the environment as possible.

Start with the basic 'indoor gear', your first level of clothing is important. All too often I see someone wearing a t-shirt and heavy jacket and still freezing their asses off.  a good basic idea is to use a t-shirt like an undershirt and wear something long sleeved over top of it. a sweater if it's particularily cold. over top of that you can wear a jacket if it is warm enough, if not then wear a lighter jacket, or a hoodie/sweater or something, then put a big jacke or coat over top of that.

For those really insanely cold days, throw in some thermal underwear, a hoodie covered by a light jacket covered by a parka.

now legs: snow pants are obvious, i suggest having in your vehicle. As for wearing them, they are a pain, I only wear them when i either plan to get into some snow, or it's really insanely cold. In alot of cases, just a good, thick pair of pants will do. Beyond that you can wear long underwear, or, what I do, put on a pair of pajama bottoms and put your pants on overtop of that. Tuck the long underwear or pajama bottoms into your boots/socks if you don't already tuck your pants into your boots. This will help prevent air and snow from going up the legs (that really really sucks)

feet: first and foremost, a good pair of footwear. all leather boots don't work too well, because once leather gets cold, it tends to stay cold. Avoid steel toes if possible, because it will also 'hold' the cold. You can have leather boots if they are lined with something, or just wear more socks. As for socks, i usually just wear a pair of regular cotton socks, but for those really cold days, 2 pairs of cotton socks, or a pair of cotton with a pair of wool socks over top of them.
keep a spare pair of socks in your bag or vehicle! when socks get wet they are useless, and they will not dry if you are wearing them.

gloves: most times, just one set of good thick gloves will do. if that doesn't work, get thin wool gloves and wear one or two pairs with a regular pair of gloves, you can even get really insanely large gloves to cover that if need be.
If this is still not enough. wear a pair of latex or rubber gloves underneith everything, with the other pairs on top. The problem with this is your hands will sweat. your hands sweat anyways, but the latex doesn't let it evaporate (which keeps the heat in) just do not take the other gloves off until you are someplace warm, or your sweat will freeze. this sucks alot.

face and head- first and foremost, get a good hat (toque for us canadians, "skull cap" I think some americans call it. plain black wool winter hat.) a good hat should cover your ears as well, but if your ears are still cold you can add earmuffs or a headband. do not wear just a headband! the top of your head is where you lose the most body heat, period. if you do not cover it, you will be cold! For the face and neck, you can get a scarf. I hate scarves, they get caught on things. what I did is get a headband that is very tall and very stretchy, i pull it over my head and have the top resting just above my nose, under my eyes, covering from there down to the neck. you can also get a belaclava (however you spell that) But I don't like those, you always get nervous looks in stores and banks (people almost go to the point of panic around these, it's nuts)  and like  d/\t/\m/\gg0+  said, sunglasses. or get goggles that look like sunglasses, like the ESS advancers or the Wileyx SG-1's.

Hope this helps

By the way, I live in Alberta, canada. We have nutso cold winters, So I know what I'm talking about  Grin
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 12:07:57 PM »

I would look at the ECWCS (Extended Cold Weather Clothing System) and generally try to copy that as best you can..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECWCS

http://coldweatherclothing.info/ECWCS.html

base layer - wicking layer like under armor or equivalent (or thermal underwear/polypros)

mid layer - insulating or fill layer, fleece or down is a good choice

outer layer - wind proof / water proof layer, a hard shell jacket with gortex or equivalent, or treatment

It's best to apply this system to your upper torso but you could do the same for the lower torso and extremities.

I'd suggest a 2 in 1 or 3 in 1 jacket system or you may be able to DIY an equivalent for cheaper.

Always cover your head and neck if you're cold, if you're still cold covering your face is prudent. Like people said a wool or fleece hat works for covering the top of your head, I use a SpecOps Recon Wrap for covering my neck or face, if it's really cold I add a fleece or wool scarf to that. 

For gloves I use GI wool glove liners, sometimes I add another glove over for durability and wind or water protection.

For socks I use thick wool or a thinner wool/synthetic blend like SmartWool or equivalent, Costco's Kirkland brand wool/synthetic blend socks work great and are relatively inexpensive in comparison. 

In the winter and fall I wear waterproof tactical response gear boots which are tailored for police use.

Make sure to tailor your dress for how active you intend to be. Sweating can change how warm you feel by 5-15 degrees.

Hope this helps..
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benabus
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 04:16:56 PM »

Thanks for the quick replies.  I think this will all be very helpful. 

The main things I got out of this are:  LAYERS LAYERS LAYERS.

Another quick question that may or may not be related:  There is a button on the storm flap, just above chest level on the outside of an M65.  Does anyone know what it's used for?

Anyway, thanks very much!
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 07:16:54 PM »

As a hardened vet of brutal Chicago winters, I wholeheartedly agree with everyone in this thread. Also, if you end up with a lot of snow, you want to steer clear of cotton. Cotton kills. When it gets wet, cotton loses most of its heat retaining ability. Wool or microfiber, on the other hand retain their insulating properties when wet.

So when it gets cold and wet (which it will, oh server, it WILL: 32 degrees F is a slice of springtime for us during the winter), make sure you've got something that will wick moisture away from you and retain body heat when wet.

As for the layers thing, you'd be surprised how much of a sweat you can work up in cold weather, which is why it's good to wear layers. I've been out shoveling snow and after one hour was down to the t shirt. It's all about core body temperature.
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2008, 11:12:26 PM »

NECK GATOR!!!

Great info here.  Layers, hat, socks etc.  Screw the scarf.  Neck gator!  You could probably cut one out of the sleeve of an old wool sweater or buy one:  http://www.attackwear.com/neckgatortan.htm

Protects the neck and when the wind really blows, pull it up to your eyes.  And it looks cool in any situation.
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MorningRoc
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2008, 12:40:11 AM »

Lived in Northern Indiana all my life. Right on the lake, buddy. These last few winters have been increasingly hellish, to be sure. I really have nothing more to add that everyone else hasn't already said much better, so listen to them.

Buy a good shovel and stock up on cheap beer.
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2008, 11:16:30 PM »

I live in a part of Pennsylvania that gets really cold at times and I've haven't used a "winter coat" for years. Layers are the way to go. If it is really cold, I wear a long-sleeve t-shirt, a flannel over that, covered by a hoody, and perhaps with a vest over that. With the right materials, that is plenty. What you really need to protect are the extremities. Because the blood vessels are so close to the surface of the skin, that is where you lose the majority of your body heat. The feet are especially vulnerable. A good pair of socks, boots, long-johns, and decent pants, and you ought to be set. A good pair of athletic gloves (to retain tactile abilities) ought to do for the hands for short to mid-term exposure. Always carry a heavier pair of gloves, just in case. I have a nice, thick beanie that I wear and it has done me just fine throughout four or five winters, some cold and others not. I recommend having two if you plan to be active outdoors. You will still sweat and the beanie will get moist with sweat, decreasing its effectiveness. When that happens, put on the other one while the other dries. Generally speaking, that ought to do it.
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mm405416
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 12:42:56 PM »

Everybody seems to be pretty spot on, I'll give you a very brief run down of what I wear and touch on cars briefly

Feet: I currently own a pair of Rocky boots (paratrooper style with a side zip) that do pretty well, I also have a pair of Brahma Boots from Wally World (the "SWAT" model) both work pretty well, pair them up with a goot boot sock and your in good shape

Legs: Long underwear is without a doubt amazing stuff, I thoroughly enjoy it, I normally wear it under a pair of BDU pants of a heavy pair of jeans

Torso: again, layer up: I go as follows   long underwear->long sleeve t-shirt -> coat liner -> coat (which may actually be an M65, but I wouldn't swear to it, I'll have to check)

Head: This may be a little excessive, but what I normally carry is a radar hat (wool cap with the visor), something similar to the neck gator made out of microfleece pulled up just below my eyes, and in a pocket I carry a pair of motorcycle goggles (yellow lenses)

Hands: I haven't invested too much time into my hands (shame on me!) but right now I have a pair of what I guess you would call sniper gloves (the fingerless gloves that have the attached pull-over mitten top)


Now as for cars
The Ohio Committee for Severe Weather Awareness suggests the following

• At least two blankets or a sleeping bag
• Flashlight (preferably water and shock-proof) and spare batteries
• Extra clothing – particularly, hats, boots and mittens/gloves
• Bottled water and nonperishable high-energy foods (granola bars, raisins, nuts, hard candies, peanut butter or cheese crackers)
• Emergency flares
• Jumper cables
• Spare tire/tire iron/jack
• First-aid kit and necessary bandages/medications
• Sand or non-clumping cat litter for tire traction, if vehicle gets stuck on ice or in snow
• A cell phone and extra cell phone battery or charger
• Coin change for pay phone use
• Tow rope or chain
• Brightly colored cloth to use as a signal

Not a bad list, obviously we can take what we know as wogs and improve on this as we see fit
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2008, 12:44:34 PM »

I usually don't stay outside for really long extended periods of time during the winter.

I live in northern Wyoming, we do get some bad winters here, though not too bad as of the past few years.

I find the M65 coat, and liner do me well enough most of the time.
If I'm going out for a while, I'll throw on some thermal underwear/shirt, perhaps some snow pants (if I'm going snowmobiling for example) a good pair of wool socks and a hoodie sweatshirt. I use my Danner boots most of the year. They do me well.

gloves and a wool hat (beanie, tuque, w/e) too.

other than that... its not so bad.

You do have to get used to the cold though, same as getting used to hot climates. it takes awhile to adjust.

On a side note, I like the cold. It is easier to start a fire, than it is to hand craft an air conditioner.

Edit: Looked up the nato number on my coat and it is indeed an M65... I didn't know that before.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 12:46:30 PM by fire_missionary » Logged

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mm405416
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2008, 10:32:44 AM »

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avagdu
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2008, 02:55:38 PM »

Nice!
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