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Author Topic: Doing it for real.  (Read 2119 times)
Yugosaki
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2008, 04:38:58 PM »

Holy BALLS that's a cheap tent.  the limiting factor keeping me from getting a tent was the cost. Thanks for the tip. I can't find a decent tent here in the sub $200 range, because you can't get a tent that isn't all fancied up for the sane people.


And yeah, Cimm does make it look easy. I got all the high speed gear, and it helps, but it still isn't "easy"

On that note I gotta do some filming when I get home.

If you can't get that video converted, shoot me a PM. I have ways of dealing with uncooperative codecs.
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Tych0
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2008, 08:00:41 PM »

I think, on the water factor it's better to carry a couple roll up dromedary bags (or those camelbacks), some iodine tablets and a water filter instead of packing in 5 whole gallons. It saves lots of weight and affords you not only an easier time carrying water, but the ability to refill at streams and springs with safe, potable water.
On the other hand iodine has such a distinctive taste it's hard to forget, lol.
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Scott Skawronska
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2008, 11:45:38 PM »

Quote
I think, on the water factor it's better to carry a couple roll up dromedary bags (or those camelbacks), some iodine tablets and a water filter instead of packing in 5 whole gallons.

Not five gallons.  Five liters.  Actually, four.  I think I could have gotten by on four liters if I hadn't hiked that 3 miles on the second day.  I only had TWO liters, that is, 4x 500ml bottles.  And I forgot my damn canteen, with cup, stove, cover, and iodine/halazone tablets.

On the upside, I DID have a water filter, for all the good it did me.  You see, the RIVER where there was ANY kind of water was literally 25 FEET from my car, which is what I used to drive to the store.

So either way you sliced it, you had 1.5 miles to hike for water.

There is no way in HELL I would have carried five gallons in for only three days;  That's insane.  But four liters plus a full canteen would have made me a much happier camper.

And like I said, I DO have a water filter.  I just didn't have a source from which to use it.

And I'm learning that while it's nice to camp by a water source, it isn't always the way it works out.  So, four liters is my optimal.  Two isn't enough, more than four starts becoming weight prohibitive.

S
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almac
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2008, 12:03:47 AM »

if it were me, id spend the extra money on the tent. Walmat sells chinese crap. I had a 'cheap' tent, and got 2-3 weekends out of it before stitching failed, and roof began to leak.  Angry  I wish Maxpedition made tents! Wink
I'm still looking for a good one; i dont mind spending the money for quality. If i have to spend $200 bucks for a tent that will last me 10 years, so be it.
you get what you pay for.

peace
mac
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Scott Skawronska
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2008, 12:20:07 AM »

Generally, I agree with buying quality.

However, this is for your BUGOUT BAG, which means that, ideally, all it's going to do is SIT, unless you're actually using your BoB for camping.

Tying up a couple hundred dollars in kit that's perpetually on standby is kinda...counterproductive, don't you think?

What does it do?  -- Keeps you reasonably warm and dry for a minimum of 3 days.
How well does it do it?  -- Both of our tents were from Wal-Mart.  His was under 20.00, mine was 27.00 on sale.  Neither of them leaked, and both of them provided both thermal and precipital protection for the entire three-day trip.

So while yes, spending more for a dedicated CAMPING Tent makes sense, for an EMERGENCY bugout tent, the Wal-Mart units are just fine.

And in my opinion, they're better than just a poncho, and as you can see, lighter and less expensive.

Changing the subject, I was shopping for a camp hatchet/tomahawk, and am pretty much sold on the Cold Steel "Trail Hawk" -- Anyone have any firsthand info on this piece of kit?

S

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Yugosaki
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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2008, 01:09:29 AM »

if it were me, id spend the extra money on the tent. Walmat sells chinese crap. I had a 'cheap' tent, and got 2-3 weekends out of it before stitching failed, and roof began to leak.  Angry  I wish Maxpedition made tents! Wink
I'm still looking for a good one; i dont mind spending the money for quality. If i have to spend $200 bucks for a tent that will last me 10 years, so be it.
you get what you pay for.

peace
mac

cheap tent is better than no tent.

And this is why you bring a tarp and some duct tape. If your tent holds up, you can make a nice awning outside to keep your gear dry. your tent springs a leak, use the tarp as a rain fly.
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2008, 11:15:08 AM »

I HIGHLY recommend a tent over the tarps for the following reasons:

1) Tarps are HEAVIER
2) Tarps LEAK -- they WILL let in water at the seams.
3) Tarps are NOT bug resistant.  I forgot to mention how miserable it was once the flies and mosquitoes realized we were there.  We literally escaped into our tent the second half of the second day to get away from the CLOUD of insects.  Even with insect repellent.

Trust me on this one.

I have disagree with you on this one. If you buy a well-made purpose built tarp (IE Siltarp) for backpacking, they are waaaaaay lighter than any tent you're going to be able to find. Much more adaptable and a hell of a lot easier to carry. If you're worried about bugs then you can also add in a mosquitos net, they make some real light ones that are mae for backpacking. Of course with the tarp, you have to be more careful when selecting a campsite and pay attention to how you set it up. It's more of a knowledge versus gear thing. The more knowledge & experience you have the less gear you need... In any case a good backpacking tarp, will cost you a good bit more than either of those cheap tents you mentioned. But it will also hold up 10 times better and be a lot more functional.

Generally, I agree with buying quality.

However, this is for your BUGOUT BAG, which means that, ideally, all it's going to do is SIT, unless you're actually using your BoB for camping.

Tying up a couple hundred dollars in kit that's perpetually on standby is kinda...counterproductive, don't you think?

What does it do?  -- Keeps you reasonably warm and dry for a minimum of 3 days.
How well does it do it?  -- Both of our tents were from Wal-Mart.  His was under 20.00, mine was 27.00 on sale.  Neither of them leaked, and both of them provided both thermal and precipital protection for the entire three-day trip.

So while yes, spending more for a dedicated CAMPING Tent makes sense, for an EMERGENCY bugout tent, the Wal-Mart units are just fine.

And in my opinion, they're better than just a poncho, and as you can see, lighter and less expensive.

Changing the subject, I was shopping for a camp hatchet/tomahawk, and am pretty much sold on the Cold Steel "Trail Hawk" -- Anyone have any firsthand info on this piece of kit?

S

I have been reading on other forums about BOBs and et and I have come to the conclusion, that you're BOB shouldn't be something static that sits around. Take it with you, use it, replensih it, learn where everything is in it until it is second nature. So I don't think buying a cheap tent just for a BOB is a good idea. I don't like buying anything for sedimentary purposes.

But then again, Scott, you know I am a gear whore, I believe in buying the best I can get. There is that old saying, buy quality cry once...

As far as the Cold Steel trail hawk goes, it is a great tomahawk. I hate the stupid finish they put on it, but otherwise it is well made, well balanced very functional. Now if only you could get a syntehtic handle for it like they use on some of the new vietnam 'hawks, that would be badass.
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Scott Skawronska
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2008, 12:40:24 PM »

Okay, yes, the Siltarp is lighter, but that's pretty much a single piece of almost the same material the tents are made of, not the traditional woven tarps like the kind you get at Wal-Mart or an auto parts store.

Must make sure we're on the same page.  If someone goes into a situation expecting one of those heavy, grommeted tarps to be as functional and lightweight as a Siltarp, then they will be SADLY disappointed.

I must admit, the Siltarp is very light weight.  Insanely light weight, as in 7 ounces for the whole thing.  It's also 60 bucks and it says "designed to be supported by walking sticks" -- so you do need accessories.  You're right about the knowledge thing, and choosing your campsite, but for most folks, a fully self-contained tent is going to be a more practical solution.

And as well, you are right about USING your kit so that you're familiar with it -- a static BoB is technically a waste of money, because not only do you NOT get the use out of the gear you've bought, but when you GO to use it, if you haven't PRACTICED with it, or at the very least FAMILIARIZED yourself with it, you're not going to use it properly in an emergency.

Hence, why I took mine out.

I'm just saying...for the "utility life" of the bugout bag -- 3 days to a week, a Wal-Mart tent is fine, and won't kick you as hard in the wallet.

I know you're a gear whore, and this is why I go to you consistently for the latest and greatest in kit;  However, as you know, I and many Wogs and PAA members aren't -- especially in these trying economic times.

The Siltarp is sixty bucks on sale.  A USGI poncho is FORTY.  A USGI Poncho LINER is TWENTY NINE.

But the little bangladesh-made (Not china...it says "Made in Bangladesh", but, same difference right?) tent which is light enough to actually pack WITH or even IN a BoB (if you get a large enough backpack) is only about eighteen bucks, and comes with more accessories than any of the above mentioned kit.

Yes, it's cheaply made.  But it will do what you need it to do, and it's better than nothing.

Some of us can't afford to be gear whores -- especially me right now.  So I do what I do best:  Beat the hell out of the cheap stuff, finding little diamonds in the rough that actually stand up to the abuse, and then recommend them.

But thanks for the info on the Siltarp -- that's a pretty cool piece of ultra-lightweight kit.

S
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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2008, 04:58:01 PM »

Yeah, also I wouldn't recommend the woven tapr as you can get heavy duty plastic tarps for the same price range as your cheap tent. They will last for a while if you take care of them and they are still lighter than a tent. (I am just not a fan of tents, I admit it).

As fro being able to afford being a gear whore, I am in the same boat with you, my business has been hurting pretty bad because of the economny this year, so I skrimp & save and only buy gear occassionally.
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2008, 04:22:50 PM »

@Scott_
That is why we do drills, because nothing EVER works the way its supposed to. Then after you think you have done enough drills that you know your shit, something goes wrong. Thats just the way it works. Just imagine waiting until you NEEDED to do these things and having all those problems.

About that atkins diet, be careful because it causes you to not have a lot of energy. That standard human diet is supposed to be around %80 carbs give or take so you can see how much energy we use in a day.

I'm glad to see you made it back and perhaps next time we can see you light a fire with two sticks. I did it and the thing to know is, you need to have the FAT end at the bottom and the SMALL end at the top. I had it backwards and nearly melted my hand. I can't wait to see the vids. Cheers. BTW, if you need to use my website for space or anything, just let me know.
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2008, 05:22:52 PM »

About that atkins diet, be careful because it causes you to not have a lot of energy. That standard human diet is supposed to be around %80 carbs give or take so you can see how much energy we use in a day.

(not to derail, but...) I experienced this about a 1-2 weeks into the diet when I first started, even going up a flight of stairs made the muscles "burn out" quicker than usual. About 2-3 weeks after that it dissipated altogether. I'm not sure the exact mechanics of why it went away, but its a temporary condition. (...back on track now)
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Scott Skawronska
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« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2008, 06:58:25 PM »

Day 1: Friday.

Originally scheduled to be AT the campsite by 12:00, but some personal issues got in the way.

Personal issue #1: Diesel Van breaks down in St. Petersburg 1045 AM -- not the engine, the rear end.  Dammit.

Rescued by AAA at 12:30, arrived house 1:00.  Because of no vehicle, must head to pawnshop with side-folding AK for quick money.

1p - 2p sell rifle.
2p - 3p acquire insurance for car previously unused
3p - 4p Sit on ass at tag office getting license for car previously unused but now insured

4pm -- still at home, about to run out the door.

Now, it gets DARK here at 6.

Just so we're all on the same page.

Grab sewing kit going out the door -- place in cargo pocket.  Grab "butter warmer" frame, intended to be used with pop can stove burner and canteen/canteen cup -- place in cargo pocket.

Grab BoB going out the door (Simulating a "real" bugout -- not intentional, but when life hands you lemons...)

On the road by 4:30.

Drive 1 hr to camp location.

Park car by 5:30

BARELY make it hiking 1.5 miles (1.4 to campsite trail, .1 miles ON campsite trail to campsite) by sundown.

Things I'm glad I had:

1) Nite-Ize headband for handsfree flashlight use -- Learned this LAST camping trip.  At night, having your hands free so you can do stuff is AMAZINGLY useful.

2) My EDC in the form of my photographer's vest.  I had a spare fixed-blade knife, spare flashlight, spare lighter, and spare pen (as well as a couple of chem-lights and of course, backpack buddies handy-wipes).

Deployed tent in the twilight.  I realize at this point I am NOT wearing a watch (getting time from my cell phone.)

Did not stake down tent.  Good thing, too.

Piled gear into tent.

Deployed self-inflating mattress.
Deployed fleece sleeper.

Sealed tent.

It's dark.  Played game on cell phone until eyelids heavy, went to sleep.

Woke up 2200, cold.  Decided to make a fire.

Hiked a ways for some deadfall, retrieved deadfall by 2300

At 0100 Used 95% EverClear to light the fire.  Yeah, I cheated.  So sue me.

So we had a fire for a while.  Trouble is, there wasn't a whole lot of deadfall, and I ended up using my Kershaw Military Boot Knife to cut down saplings.  Yes, it can be done, but it takes a LONG time.


Military Boot Knife

I also had sharpening gear, which I used throughout the trip to keep the knife sharp.


Smith 2-step Knife Sharpener (aka "Cheater Block") -- I demonstrate the use of this in some of the footage...it's boring.

So with a nice fire, I went back to bed.

End of day 1.  Around 0200.

S
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« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2008, 07:21:11 PM »

Using everclear is not cheating, its improvising. Do what ever it takes. Have you tried those folding pull saws? Those things will go through anything, and fast. Worth looking into cause their cheap.
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2008, 06:55:04 PM »

Sounds like an adventure.  I'm glad you posted it - this proved the impetus I needed to restructure and repack my bag.  I took the main module and the weapons module to test them out on a road trip last month, came home, washed my gear....and stacked it all in the same room as the other gear without actually repacking it.  After hearing about your issues with things you *knew* would be there but weren't, it occurred to me to dissect and pick through the assorted modules to make sure everything was present and still viable.  Kind of embarassing how much of my stuff was not there or no longer up to spec. 

I'm really looking forward to seeing the series when you get the video online.  I have no doubt it will prove to be as educational as your essays/stories/rants.
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And life is thorny; and youth is vain;
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2008, 12:45:12 AM »

I can't wait to see some pictures!

Thanks for sharing mate!
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