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Author Topic: Internet2 - Pandora's box chronicles video (10 min.)  (Read 2508 times)
avagdu
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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2008, 04:59:25 PM »

@Snarffs

I built harlequin's Standovermedia website for him. If you watch r4nger5 tv episode 1 you'll see video of both me and him. He is in Britain and I am in the US.

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avagdu, keep up the excellent work

Which work are you referring to?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 05:03:22 PM by avagdu » Logged

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Scott Skawronska
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« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2008, 01:33:40 AM »

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no profiterring by making money off of slavery all ways seemed barbaric to me, i rather more go in for enjoying myself by producing things from my labour and giving them away for free, it's much more fun.

I don't know what to say to that, other than I hope it works out well for you in fantasy trust-fund-kid land.

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id rather have 100 hungry workers around then one profiteering fat egotist that believes he allowed control others because he own's a pile of worthless money.

Worthless eh?  Well if it's so worthless, why do we buy things with it?

All your grandstanding and name calling is telling me that 1) You've never owned a business, and 2) You have no clue what you're talking about, as your rhetoric is charged with emotion and has very little sense or substance.

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How about you don't try telling me what books i should take stock from and i won't take stock of the crap nonsense you obviously fill your head with.

It's called real-life experience, son.  You don't have it, so you're not in a position to judge.  Period.

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I understand perfectly the modern pseudo economics of the state run capitalism.

No, obviously, you do not.  You're like a 13 year old virgin trying to teach his grandfather all he learned about sex from a schoolbook.

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surviving then any utter useless mechant class(which you seem to favour?).

First, it's called an education.  Get one.  Then we'll talk.  Second, I favor a businessman who does his part for the economy.  It is you who labels him worthless because of your own non-acknowledged lack of understanding for what he actually does.  I cannot convince you, because you have no frame of reference.

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The needs of a person are very easily dealt with and free from the burdon of you and your profiterring egotists the work would get organised far better.

It's "burden" not "burdon", and "profiteering" has only one "r".  And it's easy for you to spout off about how much better it would be for labor to organize than management, so tell you what, sparky, why don't you do it?  Why don't you put together a working business model where the "producer" directs the production.

Prove to me (and everyone else) that you actually understand what it is you're talking about, instead of just acting like an ass.

Let's see YOUR model, son.

S
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« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2008, 02:38:40 PM »

Oh, for fuck's sake, I can't believe this thread has degenerated to this already.
I run a successful small business and simultaneously work towards a larger goal of eliminating the capitalist model from my life and continuing to organize community-based labor systems that can eventually govern themselves, choose their own direction and eliminate the need for money as a basis for exchange.

Over the last 15 years of experimenting with community, it is nearly always the type of individuals that lower themselves to acts like correcting someones spelling or grammar and other empty combative gestures that stand the most  in the way of developing an efficient egalitarian model.

Maybe we are better off without the internet. (sarcasm)
People will very rarely engage each other like this face to face.
All either one of you is doing in this shallow bickering is furthering the distance between yourselves and any real solutions.
"We will never defeat the enemy if we are at each others throats.", remember?

There is nothing creative coming out of this. I am done. Thanks to all who actually tried to think outside the box.

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There are still places on the internet where free speech and balanced argument and core values reign, Where people don't resort to childish responses to get their way, in the face of truth this site does not, in my experience, currently seem to be one.

I guess V was right about this.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 02:41:01 PM by AleMaker » Logged

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Scott Skawronska
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« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2008, 03:16:13 PM »

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I run a successful small business and simultaneously work towards a larger goal of eliminating the capitalist model from my life and continuing to organize community-based labor systems that can eventually govern themselves, choose their own direction and eliminate the need for money as a basis for exchange.

Now, see, I'm interested in hearing about that.  That sounds like you have a workable model.  Tell me more.

S
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« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2008, 05:23:24 PM »

I'll add a second on Scott's thought.  Though perhaps on another thread...
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Enki
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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2008, 07:08:31 PM »

Third on wanting to hear more.

Remember that turning up the noise with meaningless drivel, or shutting off the signal because of your frustration are both part of the same feedback loop. If you don't think an argument has any merit, rebut it, then IGNORE IT. Signal/noise requires continuous investment in more new quality content.

I for one believe that capitalism in it's TRUE form can be a wonderful thing, continuously increasing the quality of life for all participants. Unfortunately, we run a very broken game here, and that leads to people thinking that capitalism is the problem, when it is other things (corporations, tariffs, protectionism, resource exploitation) that are the actual root causes.
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Scott Skawronska
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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2008, 01:31:59 AM »

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and that leads to people thinking that capitalism is the problem, when it is other things (corporations, tariffs, protectionism, resource exploitation) that are the actual root causes.

Ya know, ya just might be onto something there.  Much the way Statism ruined "pure" communism, it certainly appears that Statism ALSO ruined "pure" capitalism.

Possibly because both are idealistic theories difficult to put into practice because of human nature.

Which is why I'm interested in seeing a workable model.  I'd like to see what Wogs do to take into account the widest variety of human variation and still keep functioning.

I know we can do it.

Step up, y'all.  Show me what cha got.

S
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avagdu
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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2008, 01:34:20 AM »

I think you guys know my stance.  Cheesy
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« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2008, 12:15:49 PM »

It's not going to matter on the workable model. There are plenty of workable models. Anytime you involve the human element, everything goes down the toilet. Capitalism as the example would work just fine, if the people involve were a moral bunch. IMO, Ayn Rand had aired a bit of truth when explaining that most wo/men were selfish.
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avagdu
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« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2008, 12:44:35 PM »

I don't think it's so much about every single person being moral all the time - only simply respecting another's just private property claim. That's it. But I'd rather not have a huge debate over it yet again so I'll just leave it at that.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 09:53:46 PM by avagdu » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2008, 01:45:59 PM »

Ok Enkis right-

Our goal (my wife and I+ 3 year old son w/ developing opinions of his own) is to leave the system and 'culture' as we know it to whatever degree that we can acheive that and pioneer new models of our own. (reasons are another thread, see post: http://smf.rantradio.com/rantmedia-general-discussion/the-nuclear-family-is-a-deathtrap/0/
I run a very sucessful small business selling homebrew supplies (http://kennebechomebrew.com) in central Maine, and yet I have no greater desire than to leave the monetary system and all of it's abstraction behind and move back toward a tribal familial model of living in a (small) community setting. (again, see previous post listed above).
I've spent the better part of over 15 years exploring different intentional community models and ways to sustain them in the modern world (which, by my reckoning is on the verge of some drastic change).

In the big picture, the systems in place are not capable of sustaining love in their current utilization. Yah Love, it's a mutherfukin necessity.

I agree with the comments about pure communism and pure capitalism. Both have valuable aspects in concept. It's the individuals within the community that shape the strengths and weaknesses of the model, and well... people are just a friggin mess. Ego seems to destroy so much of what gets a good start... so one of the largest areas that is mostly ignored by other models is community therapy (for lack of a better term- i.e. in-life during-the-day honesty and feedback about things personal as well as business....) If you are going to have full community involvement, then you have to do the work and pay the dues to learn how to work together and solve conflict. Most people aren't ready for this. They bail when it's their turn to change.

Which brings us to slackers and dip-shits. How to deal with them... I say back to the tribal model...

I feel like the bottom line is to continue to boldly go into new social territory and go ahead and fail over and over again if that's what happens, with a model that allows for that, becuase holy shit- when you are dealin with human beings in a group, failure is imminent, yet somehow the work must get done, the food must be produced, shit must be disposed of, peace must be kept, and progress must be entertained.

Any working model can be expanded into a larger one, so for me it makes sense to continue the work of so many others and build a smaller prototype culture that might work well enough to draw people of a high enough caliber to help further develop it. All of this is no small feat, but that's what we're doing.

oh yah- and internet cencorship closes the doors of communication and free information that accelerate the process.
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Enki
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« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2008, 10:55:49 AM »

I don't think it's so much about every single person being moral all the time - only simply respecting another's just private property claim. That's it. But I'd rather not have a huge debate over it yet again so I'll just leave it at that.
Can you link the previous huge debate?
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avagdu
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« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2008, 03:08:11 PM »

@Enki

Previously huge debate:

Politics Where Do You Stand
http://smf.rantradio.com/offtopicspamflamebait/politics-where-do-you-stand/

Episodes of WogRant (http://www.wogrant.com/id1.html) 10-16 also have a fair amount of debate. I'm told this show is on Rant Radio Talk.

Episode 11 of 10n3 r4nger5 of R4nger5 Radio also covers it: http://www.archive.org/details/r4nger510n3r4nger5episode11

Summaries on resources for libertarianism on a thread that got hijacked by a troll:
http://smf.rantradio.com/rantmedia-general-discussion/if-you-really-want-to-understand-libertarianism-please-read/

Just about every issue ever brought up on this board has already been sufficiently rebutted by people like Murray N. Rothbard or Stefan Molyneux for example.  There are debates all the time on YouTube, you can view my YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/avagdu) playlist covering much of this material:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/p/D98E4955004CA06D&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/p/D98E4955004CA06D&rel=1</a>

Check the above thread link also for more information.

Good YouTube channels to check out are : austrolibertarian, brainpolice2, stefbot and junior00bacon00chee who also cover these issues well.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 07:32:41 PM by avagdu » Logged

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Jebusura
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« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2008, 11:24:48 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/p/D98E4955004CA06D&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/p/D98E4955004CA06D&rel=1</a>

Check the above thread link also for more information.


If that could be shown on mainstream T.V. across the world for just one night....
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avagdu
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« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2008, 12:31:47 PM »

Thanks man!  Cheesy
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