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Author Topic: John McCain ASPIRES to be A DICTATOR  (Read 1257 times)
Rantster
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2008, 02:48:28 PM »

Fair enough. We are as humans prejudice by nature, so I don't think it odd that you believe what you believe. But I do see Palin just as much of a threat as McCain is.

That could be, but I see either of them as less of a threat than Obama or Bidden.

What about her ties to the Alaskan Secessionist Party through her husband? Her doublespeak, her outright lies? Her clearly documented unethical abuse of power as Governor? How much research have you actually done in to her, or are you just listening to what their campaign camp tells you? Here, just for starters: http://commonmistakes.blogspot.com/2008/08/top-ten-sarah-palin-scandals.html

Admittedly, I haven't done as much as I would like and I will be continuing to do more. As far as lies or doublespeak, I do not like that. Unfortunately that seems to the S.O.P. for politicians. As far as the Alaskan Independant Party & her ties to it. I am much more of a Liberatarian than either a Republican or a Democrat, so if she does have those ties more power to her! The A.I.P. is much more in keeping with how I think. I have looked at the blog you posted before. It does make light of some interesting things, but look at who the blogger endorses and ask yourself if things aren't presented with a bias. Both sides tell lies, read all of the lies & all of the research and choose for yourself. That is what I am trying to do.

There is no such thing as a politician who is a regular family person with conservative values. You have to lie to win in the political world. But I don't expect you to agree with that.

I do agree with you to a point, like I said I grew up with my Maternal Grandfather being a state rep for the majority of my life. I lived it, I saw it. He was/is a shitty Family patriarch but he was a good rep, took care of his constiuents & did a good job at that. As a Grandfather he sucked ass. When I say she is a regular family person, I mean she didn't grow up with a silver spoon in her mouth, she didn't go to Ivy League schools and wasn't in the same fraternities. Palin is a lot closer to your average American than anyone who has run for this office in a long time.

Who cares if Obama didn't put his hand over his heart? What is the point of making an issue out of such a thing? I never stood for the Pledge of Allegiance in high school, does that make me unpatriotic?

I care. Whatever you think of this country, if you aren't patriotic enough or smart enough to know you're supposed to solute when running for public office, you should be tossed out on your ass. Period. My opinion. Your mileage may vary. But you asked who cares, I care.

I can't seem to understand this argument against Islam that I hear from various people. Let's assume for just a moment, that you're right, and Islam is a completely violent religion and that is all it is. So? How does this differ from Christianity? Oh, right, because one book openly says to do what the other book's 'peaceful' followers have BEEN doing all along anyway. Christians believe too that anyone not from their religious affiliation are infidels as well. Now let's assume that you're wrong. That you're just doing what scared, bigoted American's have been doing since 9/11: taking isolated events and assuming they represent everyone from that religion. Thousands of Muslims take their religion very seriously, and violently. What about the other millions? If they were so violent, why haven't we had this war ALREADY?

I don't know why we haven't had this war already. I just know, I have research Islam and I do not have a good feeling about it. Instead of argueing with me online, go buy some books & start reading.

From your comments above, I also recommend that you read about Christianity as well. You seem to have a little knowledge, that is mostly what anti-Christian liberals spew about the evils of Christianity. Sure there are people in all religions who will do horrid things in the name of their religion, we both have to agree on that. There have been in the past many people who have done things in the name of Christianity that have been terrible. But I say study the past and learn from it. But those things are over and done. You need to focus on the things happening today and what could happen tomorrow.
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Loopster
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2008, 02:51:26 PM »

I live my freedom, I don't ask for it.

Thanks for saying that.

This thread is making me nauseous so I am going to never visit it again. I am actually sorry that I read it.
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2008, 03:50:58 PM »

Perhaps this thread illustrates the possible dangerous aspect to nationalism. It seems just as harmful as it may be helpful..
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« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2008, 04:01:42 PM »

Wait. So you'll judge a man unpatriotic for not putting his hand over his heart during a stupid song, but you'll support a group wanting to no longer even be part of this country? That's confusing my friend. How can you claim to think along the lines of Libertarianism, when you willingly support a McCain administration?

Everything has a bias. I'd love to see a person who isn't, to one degree or another. So, you are right in pointing out the "bias" in the blog. But are you sure you just aren't looking for bias? Are you sure you just aren't seeing what you want to see? If you assume anyone who supports Obama is a liberal anti-Christian nutjob, you'll make very little progress in your researching the facts journey.

Yes, Palin is a tad more closer to a normal American in terms of schooling. I could ask, is that such a good thing? I could make the argument many others have made: that I'd rather have a genius elitist in office than an average idiot. But I won't make that argument, because it's too.. strict. So I'll say that although you are right to an extent, the fact is Palin is just like the Obama and Biden that you seem to dislike. She just tries to hide that with a wink and a "doggonit, you betcha" attitude. But I suppose that's what you like about her.

No, Obama didn't make a SMART decision in choosing not to salute. But he didn't make a WRONG decision. The rest is just irrelevant.

To be fair, I wouldn't really say I'm "arguing" with you. I hope not, anyway. I happen to believe we're just discussing our two stances and trying to maybe, find a middle? Anyway, regardless, I HAVE read. Please don't say I need to read more into Christianity. Despite my previous comment, I find that to be a little insulting, though it is through no fault of your own. Yes, I am an atheist. But I don't hate Christianity. The only reason you decided to say I'm spewing "anti-Christian liberal"-ness is because I did what you did: I took events from a small minority in a religion and used it to put down everyone else in that circle. That's why I said "Oh, right, because one book openly says to do what the other book's 'peaceful' followers have BEEN doing all along anyway." Not because I actually think like that, but because it illustrated my point for you. Christians bomb kill innocent people in bombings, and beat their children if they don't "love Jesus enough". But I don't take that and assume everyone else does that and thus hate all Christians. I just weep for the sad few who hide behind a religion as an excuse to do terrible deeds they would have otherwise done.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 04:05:22 PM by MorningRoc » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2008, 06:27:31 PM »

Wait. So you'll judge a man unpatriotic for not putting his hand over his heart during a stupid song, but you'll support a group wanting to no longer even be part of this country? That's confusing my friend. How can you claim to think along the lines of Libertarianism, when you willingly support a McCain administration?

It's not a stupid song. It is our National Athem. Referring to it as a stupid song is insulting. Yes I can sympathize with a group wanting to no longer be a part of our country, I am Southern. We tried to leave a few years ago, remember...? I am sorry to confuse you, you should remember that people are not die-hard cut & dry, this or that, black or white. There is a lot of gray. I can give you several examples of gray just in my own beliefs. (If you want examples, PM me). I do have more in common with the politics of the Liberaration party but I am support Mccain in this election as I like his choice of Palin. It's not that I am a diehard support of Mccain. But we all know the Liberatarian party has no chance in winning and I prefer Mccain to Obama.

Everything has a bias. I'd love to see a person who isn't, to one degree or another. So, you are right in pointing out the "bias" in the blog. But are you sure you just aren't looking for bias? Are you sure you just aren't seeing what you want to see? If you assume anyone who supports Obama is a liberal anti-Christian nutjob, you'll make very little progress in your researching the facts journey.

No, I am not looking for a bias. I am just saying that I don't believe everything a liberal blogger says about a conservative candidate and by that same token I don't take things convervatives say about liberals as gospel either. I though I had said that adequately in my previous post when I said "Both sides tell lies, read all of the lies & all of the research and choose for yourself. That is what I am trying to do." Nor do I assume that anyone who supports Obama is a liberal, anti-Christian, nutjob. In fact, I can't find that in any of my previous posts.

Yes, Palin is a tad more closer to a normal American in terms of schooling. I could ask, is that such a good thing?

Is it such a good thing? I don't know, only the future will tell, but it is a different thing. It should be obvious that the same-old same-old isn;t working as well as we'd like.

I could make the argument many others have made: that I'd rather have a genius elitist in office than an average idiot. But I won't make that argument, because it's too.. strict.

Ok.

So I'll say that although you are right to an extent, the fact is Palin is just like the Obama and Biden that you seem to dislike. She just tries to hide that with a wink and a "doggonit, you betcha" attitude. But I suppose that's what you like about her.

I don't get where you're coming from on what I dislike. I have stated what I dislike and it has nothing to do with Palin. All politicians lie, all politicians use deceit and doublespeak, ALL of them. Period. I have been there & lived it & seen it firsthand and to an extent that I doubt anyone posting on these forums has.


No, Obama didn't make a SMART decision in choosing not to salute. But he didn't make a WRONG decision. The rest is just irrelevant.

You're right it was an accident. But like I said if you either a) Won't solute or b) Aren't smart enough to know that you should solute, you should be tossed out on your ass. But that wasn't the only incident I am speaking of, he said there were 57 states! Never in my life have I been tired or confused enough not to know that there are only 50 states in the United States of America.

To be fair, I wouldn't really say I'm "arguing" with you. I hope not, anyway. I happen to believe we're just discussing our two stances and trying to maybe, find a middle? Anyway, regardless, I HAVE read. Please don't say I need to read more into Christianity. Despite my previous comment, I find that to be a little insulting, though it is through no fault of your own. Yes, I am an atheist. But I don't hate Christianity. The only reason you decided to say I'm spewing "anti-Christian liberal"-ness is because I did what you did: I took events from a small minority in a religion and used it to put down everyone else in that circle. That's why I said "Oh, right, because one book openly says to do what the other book's 'peaceful' followers have BEEN doing all along anyway." Not because I actually think like that, but because it illustrated my point for you. Christians bomb kill innocent people in bombings, and beat their children if they don't "love Jesus enough". But I don't take that and assume everyone else does that and thus hate all Christians. I just weep for the sad few who hide behind a religion as an excuse to do terrible deeds they would have otherwise done.

First off let me say, I do not care if you are an atheist. I have lots of friends who are, it is their choice & I support them in it. My Brother who grew up in the same house as me, went to the same Baptist Church is now a devout Wiccan. His choice & I support him fully in it.

Also, I never meant to say that you were anti-Christian, liberal-ness, just that it's the same arguement I have heard time & time again. So I was suggesting to you that you research both and I still am suggesting it to you. If you find that offensive, I am sorry.

One thing I will say, I am trying to reply to what you post, only. You seem to be trying to read more into what I am saying and thusly your replies are becoming a bit irrational and you're making claims and assumptions about me that are far off base. If this discussion is to keep going, then please on reply to what I am saying exactly and do not make any assumptions. Thank You.
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MorningRoc
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« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2008, 06:45:16 PM »

I'll admit, I am probably reading a little too much into what you're saying. I won't apologize for it, but I will say that you're right in pointing it out and telling me to get back on track.

Anyway, I'm feeling sort of burned out on all of this. But hey, thanks for the talk, yeah?  Grin

I'd say "good luck, hope you get what you want", but truthfully, that's the worst thing I could think of.

Then again, there is always Canada.  Grin
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avagdu
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« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2008, 06:56:19 PM »

Quote
But we all know the Liberatarian party has no chance in winning and I prefer Mccain to Obama.

The Libertarian party never has a chance of 'winning'. Especially if you don't vote for them.

But I don't vote for them because I expect them to 'win'. It's about education.
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« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2008, 07:12:19 PM »

I'll admit, I am probably reading a little too much into what you're saying. I won't apologize for it, but I will say that you're right in pointing it out and telling me to get back on track.

Thanks.

Anyway, I'm feeling sort of burned out on all of this. But hey, thanks for the talk, yeah?  Grin

That makes two of us.

I'd say "good luck, hope you get what you want", but truthfully, that's the worst thing I could think of.

Then again, there is always Canada.  Grin

There you go again reading too much into things...

What I want is:

A Government that will not trample our rights (and I feel it's the 2nd Amendment that keeps the rest in check).

A Government that if it decides to go to war, it goes to war, we haven't won a war since WW2. Everything since then has been a stalemate at best.

An economy that isn't failing.

An economy where people are rewarded for their hardwork and honestly & punished when deserved...

A welfare system that works (ie get rid of what we have today, get back to something more like FDR's New Deal)

Education for children/people who want it and will work for it regardless of wether or not they can pay for it.

Healthcare to be more accessible and afordable.

Ignorant laws to be removed from the books.

Somewhat conservative, somewhat liberal and totally Idealogical, I know...
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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2008, 10:02:33 PM »

Quote from: Rantster
You're right it was an accident. But like I said if you either a) Won't solute or b) Aren't smart enough to know that you should solute, you should be tossed out on your ass.
Quote from: Rantster
You have absolutely no right to bitch about what the US Government does or does not do if you are not going to participate in the democratic process.

Ok, so...I'm a bit confused. You seem as though you are a somewhat stronger "patriot" than the normal average person. Which in turn I would guess that you support such things like the Constitution? Meaning that you support the right for people to have the freedom to speak their mind. Or, the right for people to peaceably protest, even if it's against some ideals of the country or it's people?

But yet you tell people they don't have the right to bitch about the system if they don't vote, or they should be tossed out on their ass if they don't salute? Seems like a logical contradiction.
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2008, 10:22:08 AM »

Ok, so...I'm a bit confused. You seem as though you are a somewhat stronger "patriot" than the normal average person. Which in turn I would guess that you support such things like the Constitution? Meaning that you support the right for people to have the freedom to speak their mind. Or, the right for people to peaceably protest, even if it's against some ideals of the country or it's people?

But yet you tell people they don't have the right to bitch about the system if they don't vote, or they should be tossed out on their ass if they don't salute? Seems like a logical contradiction.

I am a bit Patriotic. Probably more so than your average person. I love this country, I think it is the best in the world. That being said I am not blind to the problems we have either.

If you don't want to solute during the National Anthem, that is fine with me. But you're also not running for President of these United States. I feel if you are running for office, I feel like you should be a little more patriotic about this country.

Frankly I don't want a President that is either a) Unwilling to solute or b) too ignorant to know he should have soluted. That's what I mean.
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2008, 10:39:55 AM »

What I want is:

A Government that will not trample our rights (and I feel it's the 2nd Amendment that keeps the rest in check).

A Government that if it decides to go to war, it goes to war, we haven't won a war since WW2. Everything since then has been a stalemate at best.

An economy that isn't failing.

An economy where people are rewarded for their hardwork and honestly & punished when deserved...

A welfare system that works (ie get rid of what we have today, get back to something more like FDR's New Deal)

Education for children/people who want it and will work for it regardless of wether or not they can pay for it.

Healthcare to be more accessible and afordable.

Ignorant laws to be removed from the books.
And you will get none of this by voting for McCain. Even if you are just doing it for Palin.
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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2008, 12:35:42 PM »

I'll get none of it by voting for Obama either.

But at least by vioting for Mccain, I am voting for someone who does not have a record of voting against Gun Ownership Rights.
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« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2008, 03:49:04 PM »

I know I am going to regret getting involved in this conversation but it seems that there are two different worlds when it comes to politics. There is the real world in which we eat and breath and live, and then there is the political fantasy world in which presidents and candidates make promises they have no plans to keep. Let us not confuse one with the other. In the real world, all rulers are evil. In fantasy land, presidents and kings and queens are there for our best interests.

Patriotism, I am sorry to say, is only real in fantasy land. The idea that me or you are better than other people simply based on the location in which we were born sounds crazy to my mind. What is the idea of patriotism if not racism? You are not your country any more than you are your clothes, your car, or your house. Would you be willing to die in order to prevent your house from burning down? It is much more personal and likable than George Bush but because it dwells in the real world, we wouldn't risk our lives for it. Patriotism is much like religion, if you believe in it, you are willing to die for it because it is an ideal.

REAL WORLD: Hurricane Katrina kills lots of people
FANTASY LAND: FEMA is there to rescue you

REAL WORLD: Millions are dead from the US wars
FANTASY LAND: Palin discusses lipstick on the view

REAL WORLD: Cops fill out a butt load of paper work after someone dies
FANTASY LAND: Cops are there to save you

So that's why I'm voting for the lesser of two evils... because I live in fantasy land. (yes i'm being sarcastic)

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/mccain_gungrabber_101308.html
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 04:50:07 PM by enloopious » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2008, 04:54:20 PM »

If someone holds their property rights as absolute, they should not care what the rest of the nation decides to do.

http://uscivilflags.blogspot.com/2008/10/ignore-election-larken-rose.html
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« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2008, 05:09:59 PM »

Quote
They are
incapable of backing up and saying, "Who says I have to support
EITHER of these psychotic jackasses??"

Exactly. I have an overwhelming sense of dread when I think that there are hundreds of thousands of people who participate in the two party game and think they can win.
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